I have been fortunate to have joined this church in 2004 and began leading the men's Sunday School class in 2005. I have experience teaching Bible Studies for over 15 years, having worked as a layperson with the Navigators in the 1980s and 90s. I was blessed to have attended Southern Baptist Theological Seminary for 2 full years.
. . . the Lord had declared that “everything that he had made . . . was exceedingly good” [Gen. 1:31]. Whence, then comes this wickedness to man, that he should fall away from his God? Lest we should think it comes from creation, God had put His stamp of approval on what had come forth from himself. By his own evil intention, then, man corrupted the pure nature he had received from the Lord; and by his fall drew all his posterity with him into destruction. Accordingly, we should contemplate the evident cause of condemnation in the corrupt nature of humanity–which is closer to us–rather than seek a hidden and utterly incomprehensible cause in God’s predestination. [Institutes, 3:23:8]
Who is responsible for evil then? Man in his original sin.
If God is omnipotent why would He not remove and conquer evil?
John MacArthur answers this in the below quotes and link...
"So it is technically not proper to think of sin as something that was created. Sin is simply a lack of moral perfection in a fallen creature. Fallen creatures themselves bear full responsibility for their sin. And all evil in the universe emanates from the sins of fallen creatures."
"But God’s role with regard to evil is never as its author. He simply permits evil agents to work, then overrules evil for His own wise and holy ends. Ultimately He is able to make all things–including all the fruits of all the evil of all time–work together for a greater good (Romans 8:28)."
This is one of those dilemmas that drive theologians crazy. It comes to "if God is all good and all powerful than how can it let evil happen." If evil happens, it must be because God is either not all good or not all powerful. And while Jonathan's question is difficult, add to that the existence of Adolf Hitler, or Stalin, or Bin Laden or any othe monster. Or how do you talk to a girl who has been molested by her father. Awful things do happen and it does make people wonder where God is, or why does he allow evil to exist.
As God is the only uncreated being, eveil could not exist without his sayso. And Satan, by definition a created being, was the one who tempted Eve, so it would seem that evil predated mankind.
Why would that be? Isa 55:8-9 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.
e.g. I don't think we're supposed to know, at least in this life. Consider what He says about the end times - Rev 3:3 You will not know the hour.
What to say to the grieving? words like that above don't comfort. No firm answers, but I hope that prayer will put God's words for the time in my mouth.
In the midst of hard times, it helps to trust in the fact that God works for the good of us (believers). Although we may not always know why or how He is working, we can look at examples of perserverance and growth through individuals' trials in the OT and NT and draw hope from those instances of God's grace.
Romans 8:28 "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose."
Here is a related question on the topic of God and evil....
Does God just hate sin, or does He hate the sinner too?
I had always heard the phrase "Hate the sin, but love the sinner", but I heard a message recently that discussed the above question.
How do you reconcile the fact that God loves all yet hates sin (and sinners?)? Can His love coexist with His righteous hatred?
How do we view John 3:16 in light of the fact that God hates "all who do iniquity" (re: Psalms 5:4-6)
How do we reconcile the below verses?
Luke 6:27-28 "27"But I say to you who hear, (AD)love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28bless those who curse you, (AE)pray for those who mistreat you. "
Psalms 139:19-22 "19 O that You would (AB)slay the wicked, O God;(AC)Depart from me, therefore, (AD)men of bloodshed. 20For they (AE)speak against You wickedly, And Your enemies (AF)take Your name in vain. 21Do I not (AG)hate those who hate You, O LORD? And do I not (AH)loathe those who rise up against You? 22I hate them with the utmost hatred; They have become my enemies."
jonathan, you raise some good points. I think that we need to be careful about turning God into a "goody two shoes" who winks at sin. The old and new testament (see Revelation) are full of texts that talk about the wrath of God. And I have heard many people say that "God does not send anyone to hell, they send themselves." Oh really??? They have obviously not truly read Revelation 20:15 - 21:1 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
So God really HATES sin. There is no doubt about it. As far as those passages are concerned, God does hate sinners, though he loves the world, and even though he has made a way for all people to come to salvation through faith in Jesus. His hate is a hate that rests on them unless they repent and are regenerated. I think this is what Edwards was suggesting when he spoke about the "Sinner in the hands of an angry God."
6 comments:
John Calvin answered this by saying:
. . . the Lord had declared that “everything that he had made . . . was exceedingly good” [Gen. 1:31]. Whence, then comes this wickedness to man, that he should fall away from his God? Lest we should think it comes from creation, God had put His stamp of approval on what had come forth from himself. By his own evil intention, then, man corrupted the pure nature he had received from the Lord; and by his fall drew all his posterity with him into destruction. Accordingly, we should contemplate the evident cause of condemnation in the corrupt nature of humanity–which is closer to us–rather than seek a hidden and utterly incomprehensible cause in God’s predestination. [Institutes, 3:23:8]
Who is responsible for evil then? Man in his original sin.
If God is omnipotent why would He not remove and conquer evil?
John MacArthur answers this in the below quotes and link...
"So it is technically not proper to think of sin as something that was created. Sin is simply a lack of moral perfection in a fallen creature. Fallen creatures themselves bear full responsibility for their sin. And all evil in the universe emanates from the sins of fallen creatures."
"But God’s role with regard to evil is never as its author. He simply permits evil agents to work, then overrules evil for His own wise and holy ends. Ultimately He is able to make all things–including all the fruits of all the evil of all time–work together for a greater good (Romans 8:28)."
http://www.gty.org/resources.php?section=issues&aid=176388
So what answer do we give to the grieving parent/spouse, the victim of abuse, the suffer of natural disasters?
This is one of those dilemmas that drive theologians crazy. It comes to "if God is all good and all powerful than how can it let evil happen." If evil happens, it must be because God is either not all good or not all powerful.
And while Jonathan's question is difficult, add to that the existence of Adolf Hitler, or Stalin, or Bin Laden or any othe monster. Or how do you talk to a girl who has been molested by her father. Awful things do happen and it does make people wonder where God is, or why does he allow evil to exist.
Agreed this is a tough one.
As God is the only uncreated being, eveil could not exist without his sayso. And Satan, by definition a created being, was the one who tempted Eve, so it would seem that evil predated mankind.
Why would that be? Isa 55:8-9 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.
e.g. I don't think we're supposed to know, at least in this life. Consider what He says about the end times - Rev 3:3 You will not know the hour.
What to say to the grieving? words like that above don't comfort. No firm answers, but I hope that prayer will put God's words for the time in my mouth.
In the midst of hard times, it helps to trust in the fact that God works for the good of us (believers). Although we may not always know why or how He is working, we can look at examples of perserverance and growth through individuals' trials in the OT and NT and draw hope from those instances of God's grace.
Romans 8:28
"And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose."
Here is a related question on the topic of God and evil....
Does God just hate sin, or does He hate the sinner too?
I had always heard the phrase "Hate the sin, but love the sinner", but I heard a message recently that discussed the above question.
How do you reconcile the fact that God loves all yet hates sin (and sinners?)? Can His love coexist with His righteous hatred?
How do we view John 3:16 in light of the fact that God hates "all who do iniquity" (re: Psalms 5:4-6)
How do we reconcile the below verses?
Luke 6:27-28 "27"But I say to you who hear, (AD)love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28bless those who curse you, (AE)pray for those who mistreat you. "
Psalms 139:19-22
"19 O that You would (AB)slay the wicked, O God;(AC)Depart from me, therefore, (AD)men of bloodshed. 20For they (AE)speak against You wickedly, And Your enemies (AF)take Your name in vain. 21Do I not (AG)hate those who hate You, O LORD? And do I not (AH)loathe those who rise up against You?
22I hate them with the utmost hatred; They have become my enemies."
jonathan, you raise some good points. I think that we need to be careful about turning God into a "goody two shoes" who winks at sin. The old and new testament (see Revelation) are full of texts that talk about the wrath of God. And I have heard many people say that "God does not send anyone to hell, they send themselves." Oh really??? They have obviously not truly read Revelation 20:15 - 21:1
And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
So God really HATES sin. There is no doubt about it. As far as those passages are concerned, God does hate sinners, though he loves the world, and even though he has made a way for all people to come to salvation through faith in Jesus. His hate is a hate that rests on them unless they repent and are regenerated. I think this is what Edwards was suggesting when he spoke about the "Sinner in the hands of an angry God."
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